| *BACK TO SECTIONS {7} to {12}* | |
| {13} Now, we will suppose a third kind of election. Suppose a rule to be made that a suitable number of Mahomedans and a suitable number of Hindus are to be chosen. | Now we will put forward a third situation of an election, and we will apply the rule that in the Viceroy's Council there would be a proportional [munasib] number of Hindus, and a suitable number of Musulmans. |
| I am aghast when I think on what grounds this number is likely to be determined. Of necessity, proportion to total population will be taken. So there will be one number for us to every four for the Hindus. | We will be bewildered [Hairan] to think, to what this number would be proportionate. Necessarily, proportionate to a head-count. Thus on this account, if there will be one member from our side, then there will be four from the Hindus' side. |
| No other condition can be laid down. Then they will have four votes and we shall have one. | No other situation of proportionality can be established. Thus in such a situation we will have one vote, and they will have four votes. |
| {14} Now, I will make a fourth supposition. Leaving aside the question as to the suitability of members with regard to population, let us suppose that a rule is laid down that half the members are to be Mahomedan and half Hindus, and that the Mahomedans and Hindus are each to elect their own men. | Now we present a fourth situation for an election and, leaving aside the question of proportionality, establish that in the Viceroy's Council there will be half Hindu and half Musalman members. The Hindus would elect the Hindu members, and the Musalmans, the Musalmans. And we also assume [[18]] that the numbers of both will be equal. |
| Now, I ask you to pardon me for saying something which I say with a sore heart. In the whole nation there is no person who is equal to the Hindus in fitness for the work. | But you would please pardon me if I say something from a burning heart: in the whole community [qaum] there will turn out to be not even one Musalman who in the Viceroy's Council would be as capable as the Hindus of doing the work. |
| I have worked in the Council for four years, and I have always known well that there can be no man more incompetent or worse fitted for the post than myself. ("No, No!") | I have worked in the Council for four years, and have always considered that there wouldn't be any member lower or unworthier or worse than myself. ("No, no no!") |
| And show me the man who, when elected, will leave his business and undertake the expense of living in Calcutta and Simla, leaving alone the trouble of the journeys. | And point out to me those people who, if elected would leave their business affairs and spend the money to be in attendance in Calcutta and Shimla, and will bear the whole expense himself, or through collections in the region [mulk]-- and the troubles of traveling are a whole separate matter. |
| Tell me who there is of our nation in the Punjab, Oudh, and North-Western Provinces who will leave his business, incur these expenses, and attend the Viceroy's Council for the sake of his countryrnen. | Tell me who there is in our community [qaum] in Oudh, Punjab, and the western areas who for the sake of the community, and of the work of the community, will sacrifice his money, leave his business affairs, and speak in the Viceroy's Council. |
| When this is the condition of your nation, is it expedient for you to take part in this business, on the absurd supposition that the demands of the Congress would, if granted, be beneficial for the country? | When this is the state of your community [qaum], then is it suitable for you to join in such an affair, with the foolish thought that if this request would be granted then all the communities of Hindustan would benefit from it? |
| Spurn such foolish notions. It is certainly not expedient to adopt this cry — Chalo Madras!/9/ Chalo Madras! — without thinking of the consequences. | Keep your situation before your eyes, and without thinking of the future results don't go around shouting "Let's go to Madras, let's go to Madras!" (Cheers.) It is absolutely not suitable. |
| {15} Besides this there is another important consideration, which is this. Suppose that a man of our own nationality were made Viceroy of India; that is, the deputy of Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen-Empress. | Besides that, one more matter is worth thinking about, which is this: I assume that some community-fellow [ham-qaum] of mine is seated in the Viceroy's chair, and the great Queen has made him her deputy [na'ib] and given him authority over Hindustan. |
| Could such a person grant demands like these, keeping in view the duty of preserving the Empire on a firm and secure basis? Never! Then how absurd to suppose that the British Government can grant these requests! | Can such a person, with a view to the state of the country and to keeping the dominion strong and established, accept such requests? Absolutely not. Then what an erroneous opinion it is [[19]] to think that the British Government will grant these requests. |
| The result of these unrealisable and impossible proposals can be only this: that for a piece of sheer nonsense, the hearts of everybody will be discontented with Government; and everybody will believe that Government exerts over us a tyrannical rule, and turns a deaf ear to our requests. | The results of these unrealizable and impossible requests can be nothing other than that first, a foolish idea would make all the people's hearts discontent with the Government; and would convince all the people that "the Governments rules us tyrannically, and whatever we ask for it does not give." |
| And thus anger and excitement will spread throughout the people, and the peace of the country will be destroyed. | And from this, discontent and turbulence would spread, and the land would not remain peaceful. |
| {16} Everybody knows well that the agitation of the Bengalis is not the agitation of the whole of India. But suppose it were the agitation of the whole of India, and that every nation had taken part in it, do you suppose the Government is so weak that it would not suppress it, but must needs be itself overwhelmed? | Everyone must know very well that the agitation [ajiTeshan] of the Bengalis is not the agitation of the whole of Hindustan. And if it be supposed that it is the agitation of the whole of Hindustan, and that all the communities [qaum] have become united in it-- then is the Government so weak that it cannot suppress it? And from everybody's making a fuss, will the Government be overpowered? |
| Have you not seen what took place in the Mutiny? It was a time of great difficulty. The army had revolted; some budmashes/10/ had joined it; and Government wrongly believed that the people at large were taking part in the rebellion. | Have you not seen what the situation was in the Rebellion [Gadar]? That was an extremely difficult time. Its army had become spoiled/corrupted [bigaRna]. Some ruffians had joined them, and the Government wrongly considered that the subjects had rebelled. |
| I am the man who attacked this wrong notion, and while Government was hanging its officials [actually, "while the Government officials were hanging people"], I printed a pamphlet ["The Causes of the Indian Revolt"], and told Government that it was entirely false to suppose that the people at large were rebellious. | And I am the person who confronted this error of the Government's. And at a time when the Government's officials were hanging people, I printed a pamphlet [risalah] and said to the Government that to consider the subjects rebellious was entirely a folly. |
| But in spite of all these difficulties, what harm could this rebellion do to Government? Before the [reinforcing] English troops had landed she had regained her authority from shore to shore. | But despite all this, what harm did the rebellion [baGavat] do to the Government? A white [gora] from England had scarcely had a chance to set foot in Hindustan, when from one border to the other everything was tranquil, and there was peace. |
| Hence, what benefit is expected from all this for the country, and what revolution in the Government can we produce? | Thus, can any benefit for the country be sought from this? And can we cause any revolution in the regime? |
| The only results can be to produce a useless uproar, to raise suspicions in Government, and to bring back again that time which we experienced thirty or thirty-one years ago. This is on the supposition that by all of us coming together we could do something; but if you take the agitation as it is, what could it accomplish? | Apart from creating a useless turmoil; and making the Government suspicious; and disturbng that tranquillity which exists, or is gradually coming into existence; and bringing back that time that there was thirty or thirty-one years ago, I submit that-- if we [[20]] unite together and spread disaffection with the Government, can we do anything? |
| The case of Ireland is held up as an example. I will not discuss the question whether that agitation is right or wrong. | People give the example of Ireland. I take it as an example, and I won't even enter into the question of whether the disaffection in Ireland is proper or improper. |
| I will only point out that there are at this moment in Ireland thousands of men ready to give up their lives at the point of the sword. Men of high position who sympathise with that movement fear neither the prison nor the bayonets of the police. | I point out that at this time thousands of men of Ireland are prepared to give up their lives through the sword. Many high-ranking men are its partisans, they fear neither prison nor the bayonets of the police. |
| Will you kindly point out to me ten men among our agitators who will consent to stand face to face with the bayonets? When this is the case, then what sort of an uproar is this, and is it of such a nature that we ought to join it? | Please just be so kind as to single out for me ten men in Hindustan who would agree to stand before beyonets. When these do not exist, then what is this commotion, and where is the propriety in our participating in it? |
| {17} We ought to consider carefully our own circumstances and the circumstances of Government. | We ought to look carefully and fairly at our situation, and at the situation of the Government. |
| If Government entertains unfavourable sentiments towards our community, then I say with the utmost force that these sentiments are entirely wrong. At the same time if we are just, we must admit that such sentiments would be by no means unnatural. | If the Government would have any unfavorable opinions
about us, then I say with the greatest force that these
are completely wrong. But along with this at the same time
I also say that they ought to have them. |
| I repeat it. If Government entertains these bad sentiments, it is a sign of incompetence and folly. But I say this: we ought to consider whether Government can entertain such thoughts or not. Has she any excuse for such suspicions, or not? | I say again: it will be the Government's ignorance and unworthiness, if it would maintain any ill-will towards us. I say that we also ought to see whether whether the Government can form such an opinion, or not? That is, does it have occasion for any suspicion with regard to us, or not? |
| I reply that she certainly has. Think for a moment who you are. What is this nation of ours? We are those who ruled India for six or seven hundred years. (Cheers.) From our hands the country was taken by Govemment into its own. | I will reply that it certainly does have. Who are we? We are those who for six or seven hundred years ruled over Hindustan. (Cheers.) We are those from whose hands the Government snatched [chhinna] the country. |
| Is it not natural then for Government to entertain such thoughts? Is Government so foolish as to suppose that in seventy years we have forgotten all our grandeur and our empire? | For what reason would the Government not keep this in mind about us? Would the Government foolishly consider that in seventy years we've forgotten all our grandeur and our dominion? |
| Although, should Government entertain such notions, she is certainly wrong; yet we must remember she has ample excuse. We do not live on fish, nor are we afraid of using a knife and fork lest we should cut our fingers. (Cheers.) | Although if the Government has this opinion about us it is erroneous, the Government undoubtedly has occasion for suspicion. We neither eat fish, nor fear [[21]] that if we eat with knife and fork we might cut our fingers. (Cheers.) |
| Our nation is of the blood of those who made not only Arabia, but Asia and Europe, to tremble. It is our nation which conquered with its sword the whole of India, although its peoples were all of one religion. (Cheers.) | Our community [qaum] is of the blood that caused not only Arabia, but rather the whole of Asia and Europe, to tremble. It is our community alone that conquered with the sword the whole of Hindustan, in which people of a single religion lived. (Cheers.) |
| I say again that if Government entertains suspicions of us, it is wrong. But do her the justice and admit that there is a reasonable ground for such suspicions. . | I again say that if the Government would hold some such opinion with regard to us, then that is entirely erroneous. But if we look with fair-mindedness, then it has occasion to form a certain kind of opinion with regard to us. |
| Can a wise ruler forget what the state of things was so short a time ago? He can never forget it | Will a wise ruler forget the event that happened only a few years ago? He absolutely cannot forget it. |
| If then the Mahomedans also join these monstrous and unreasonable schemes, which are impossible of fulfilment, and which are disastrous for the country and for our nation, what will be the result? | At this time if the Musalmans too take part in things that are improper and inappropriate, that are impossible and are also harmful to the country and the community [qaum], then what will be the result? |
| If Government be wise and Lord Dufferin be a capable Viceroy, then he will realise that a Mahomedan agitation is not the same as a Bengali agitation, and he will be bound to apply an adequate remedy. | If the Government is wise and Lord Dufferin is a knowledgeable Viceroy, then at that time he will not think that this turmoil is like the turmoil of Bengalis. Rather, it will be necessary for him to set it right. |
| If I were Viceroy; and my nation took part in this affair, I would first of all drop down on them, and make them feel their mistake. | If I were Viceroy, and my very own community [qaum] behaved in this manner, then first of all I would explain to them the nature of their error. |
| {18} Our course of action should be such as to convince Government of the wrongness of her suspicions regarding us, if she entertain any. We should cultivate mutual affection. | We ought to walk down such a path that if in fact the Government might have some such an opinion about us, then we should remove it; and should create mutual friendship. |
| What we want, we should ask for as friends. And if any ill-will exist, it should be cleansed away. | And whatever we ask for, we should ask for with/from friendship. And if there is any ill-will, then we should clear it away. |
| I am glad that some Pathans of the N.-W. P. [North-West Provinces] and Oudh are here today, and I hope some Hindu Rajputs are also present. | At this time I hope that some of our Pathans of the Northwest and Oudh must be present here, and why would it be strange if Hindu Rajputs too would be present? |
| My friend Yusuf Shah of the Punjab sits here, and he knows well the mood of mind of the people of the Punjab, of the Sikhs and Musalmans. | Our friend Yusuf Shah of the Punjab is seated here, and knows very well the situation of the people of the Punjab, and of the Sikhs and Pathans and Musalmans there. |
| Suppose that this agitation that has arisen in Bengal — and I imagine that no danger can spring from it there — suppose that this agitation extends to these Provinces, to the Rajputs and Pathans of Peshawar, do you think it will confine itself to writing with the pen — giz, giz, giz, giz, giz [the scratching of a pen] — and to mere talking — buk, buk, buk, buk [babbling]? | Let us suppose that this commotion has arisen in Bengal-- and I [[22]] consider that there is nothing to fear from it. But if you create the same commotion in these regions [mulk], and among the Rajputs, or among the Pathans of Peshawar-- will you content yourself with the scratching of the pen, or the babbling of voices? |
| It will then be necessary for Government to send its army and show by bayonets what the proper remedy for this agitation is. | At that time, then, the Government will have to send the army, and explain with bayonets what their cure is for this turmoil. |
| I believe that when Government sees the Mahomedans and other brave races taking part in this stupid agitation, it will be necessary for Government to pass a new law and to fill the jails. | I express my view that at the time when the Government learns that an inappropriate turmoil has come among the Musalmans and the martial [bahadur] communities [qaum] as well, at that time it will certainly have to pass a law, and will fill the jails. |
| O my brothers! Children of my heart! This is your relationship to Government: you should conduct yourself in a straightforward and calm manner; not come together to make a noise and a hubbub like a flock of crows. (Cheers and laughter.) | Oh brothers! Oh pieces of my liver [=dearly beloved ones]! This is the situation of the Government, and of yourselves. You ought to remain straightforward, not with such noise and tumult that it's as if crows have gathered. |
| *ON TO SECTIONS {19} to {24}* | |
NOTES
/9/ Be off to Madras.
/10/ Scoundrels.